opinions please
CHARACTER IN QUESTION-
February 8 2008 --original upload-- http://kayfedewa.deviantart.com/art/Kiki-TEH-ZEBRAFOX-76844761
--after I emailed her-- http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1088481/
--after I emailed her-- http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1088572/
--after I emailed her-- she also uploaded and made default this icon: http://data.furaffinity.net/avatars/swiftkill.gif
LETTER I SENT THROUGH DEVIANTART AFTER GETTING MESSAGES ABOUT THE CHARACTER-
subject: kiki character issue, urgent
To: *KayFedewa
Date: Feb 18, 2008, 4:34:13 PM
uh hi, a couple of my friends sent me a link to this picture: http://kayfedewa.deviantart.com/art/Kiki-TEH-ZEBRAFOX-76844761
and um. Well basically, my character is a pretty established purple, white, and black foxish critter, of the -exact- same color, also with stripes. You can see tons of pics of you google "Techno C. Procyon" or "Robocoon". I have a FA, VCL, and some other sites.
I don't care if you have this character, but at very least (since yours is pretty new), would you please change at least the shade of purple? I know you can't have a trademark on a color or a character or anything like that, but just for personal posterity, I would really really appreciate it. I had like 5 people separately message me and point out this character, asking if it was "a new feral version of Techno" and stuff.
Stuff that's similar:
1. purplefuchsia main color
2. white belly
3. black socks
4. black gloves
5. purple and black striped tail with white tip
6. black markings on neck
7. black ears with white fluff.
8. overall combination of colors together.
9. black stripe markings
10. canid creature
I don't care if you have MOST of these characteristics, but I would really really appreciate if you could change just something, (preferably something a little more obvious than, say, adding white spots to the back of the ear or something else unnoticeable), if only to lessen confusion.
Personally, I would love you if you maybe changed the shade of purple to something more bluish or more pinkish, and maybe got rid of the white tip on the tail, or got rid of the black stripes on the neck, or added some more white markings or stripes somewhere. If you have another idea though, that's cool. But please talk to me about it, ok? I want to work this out.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Techno Procyon
http://robocoon.livejournal.com
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/robocoon/
http://www.robocoon.net
technoooo@gmail.com
If you prefer talking in email, please don't be afraid to send one to the address above there. I like email better myself, I don't use this dA account. I just have it for emergencies and stuff.
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HER RESPONSE-
Re: kiki character issue, urgent
From: *KayFedewa
Date: Feb 18, 2008, 6:47:55 PM
Hi Robo,
I need you to link me to images of your character. Unfortunately I cant dig through your galleries looking for him/her :)
She's not purple, she is supposed to be hot pink. If your character is this exact shade of pink, to appease you (although i find this to be utterly ridiculous), I can change her hue to more the red side of pink than the fushia side. However I will not make anymore changes to this character. I've never heard of you or robofox, and I am not infringing on any copyrights.
Although, because I tend to be a pretty nice person and don't like seeing people throwing fits, I will change the hue.
Let me know what you think.
~Kay
Re: kiki character issue, urgent
From: *KayFedewa
Date: Feb 18, 2008, 7:09:53 PM
P.s. Kiki's pink is #DF3F81
My photoshop color settings are calibrated for print though so when I save for web the colors get mauled. Whats your characters hex?
Apology
Sent By: Swiftkill On: February 19th, 2008 04:34
Hey,
the-burning-claw On deviant just left some comments on my DA telling me that I had met you AC and we talked briefly. I remember meeting one or two other girls with pink tails and although I can't picture you I'm sure what Burning Claw is saying is true, because my memory is pretty pathetic.
For some reason I thought you were a guy, and I'm kindof rude to guys online. If I knew that I'd met you at AC and that you were female, as stupid as that sounds, I wouldn't have blown you off like that.
I just wanted to say I'm sorry for being rude. I took down the rant on my Kiki deviation. I honestly dont want any bad blood, because I am still trying to make friends in the furry community.
I can actually understand your worries about another pink fox with stripes. But i can tell you with 100% honesty that this character wasn't based on or inspired by another character and I'd never seen yours before. It's very coincidental, however I am willing to change her hue to make her less fushia and more pink, in order to make you more comfortable. Neither of us are very original if there is another fushia fox out there :)
Im going to be at AC 08 and I was wondering if maybe we could talk and be friends, or at least aquaintences. I'm sorry for being a bitch. I didn't mean to hurt you or piss you off. I mean, I did, but I didn't know who you were :)
Write me back?
~Kay
April -- I prepared a webpage of every picture of Techno to show Swiftkill while I was without internet. When I regained access, I uploaded it.
3/14/08 -- this was uploaded -- http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1112075/
I sent the following note --
I still REALLY need to talk to you regarding your Kiki character. Someone just linked me to an image of your new tail (which is made of the exact same fur my costume tail is, heh), and I realized that I had lost contact with you regarding this while I was busy moving. I had been preparing the following page for you: http://robocoon.net/tech/kay.html sorry if the commentary sounds rude, but I wrote it while very upset over this situation.
After thinking this over, I decided to basically give up, and posted the following public livejournal entry: http://robocoon.livejournal.com/306028.html
mainly pressure from friends and family, and another response from Swiftkill, caused me to think things over. This is Swiftkill's response to the message containing webpage links--
Firstly, I REALLY wish you would have read (or at least responded to, saying "im not reading this") the apology i wrote to you over FA months ago. I checked my FA every single day for 2 weeks waiting for some kind of word from you, and even contacted one of your friends to see if you were OK and to get an idea of why you didnt respond.
My first response to you over DA -WAS- rude. But I did more research on you and discovered that I had met you at AC and you werent just a random person throwing a fit. And i talked to one of your friends on DA. and so i WROTE you an apology for my rudeness....
Anyhow, I figured you wrote me off completely and you probably did until you saw the furtail that I commissioned from Lucky a month or so after our run-in, and it sparked your interest again.
Firstly I think we should discuss the differences as well as the similarities.
Kiki has thin gradiated zebra stripes on her tail, whereas robocoon as a couple large black bands
Kiki has gradiated zebra stripes down her legs, whereas Robocoon does not
Robocoon has some more thick stripes on her rear/back, Kiki doesn't
Robocoon has black patched eyes. Kiki doesnt
Robocoon's white covers the muzzle completely, while Kiki's goes around the lips and her pink color goes over the top of the muzzle
Robocoon's black ears start at the base, whereas Kiki's black starts halfway up the ear, "tipping" them
Robo's ears are all black, while Kiki has white tips at the top
The inside of Robo's ears seem to be solidly gray (or solidly white, depending on which of your drawings im looking at- it varies), while Kiki's are white, with pink running up the middle
Kiki has two thin zebra stripes on the upper chest, while Robo has a solid band around the throat, touching the base of the head
Robo's black goes to the elbow of the arms, Kiki's goes halfway up the leg
Kiki has white tipped paws, Robo doesnt
Kiki is a fox, Robo is....not
Kiki has green irises with white corneas, Robo has solid yellow eyes
Kiki is supposed to be a hot pink, more on the red side of the spectrum than the blue side. You said Robo is supposed to be a Purple color (I have hex codes picked out for kiki and after sampling a color from a digital piece of Robo and comparing it to Kiki's pink hex, it is anything but "exact"...)
and lets not forget one of the most important differences, Kiki is a four-legged animal, while Robo is anthro.
Do you think any of the suggestions that you gave me to alter her (i.e. putting white spots on the back of her ears) would make that much of a difference amongst all these differences?
The main reason anyone is going to be reminded of Kiki upon seeing Robocoon (or vise versa) is because of the color scheme of Hot pink, black, and white. The fact that they both have stripes just adds to the familiarity, though neither of us as artists and designers can deny that the striping patterns are completely different on the two.
How I designed kiki was simple. I looked at a photo of a red fox, drew and colored it, then changed the orange to hot pink, and then added zebra stripes.
The reason why her legs and ears are black is because red foxes' are, and the reason her tail is tipped white is the same. I know you were here first and I respect that, but it doesnt make sense for me to make my tail-tip black, as my species is clearly a fox, or add spots on her ears. Coons actually have black-tipped tails, so, it would make more sense for Robo to have that if anything. :)
I don't want to have bad-blood here or make an enemy. I'm just trying to explain that our characters have a lot more differences than similarities and that you could possibly take that into account before you get too upset with me. Also, the most that has become of Kiki is a tail that I wear at cons... she really isn't that big of a deal. Im commissioning a partial suit of my comic character Swiftkill from Lucky this week anyway so....I dont know, if it makes you feel any better, I won't really be wearing Kiki that much anymore...?
I am open to different suggestions, and I want both of us to come out happy or at least content here. Im really not interested in making enemies in the fur community, but at the same time I don't take well to having my creativity manipulated by others' desires if you know what I mean. If there is some way we could compromise, like me drawing Kiki pinker from now on, and you Robo purple-er, let me know.
Also for the record, Lucky picked the fabric/materials for my tail so... if the Pink fabric is the same material, that is also coincidence.
Well, I hope you respond this time instead of leavin me hangin.
Regards,
Kay
this is my response to the letter above. Because Swiftkill's letter was so long, I formatted it a little differently to make sure that I addressed all the points.
formatted like this to help organize my thoughts, sorry
Firstly, I REALLY wish you would have read (or at least responded to, saying "im not reading this") the apology i wrote to you over FA months ago. I checked my FA every single day for 2 weeks waiting for some kind of word from you, and even contacted one of your friends to see if you were OK and to get an idea of why you didnt respond.
I did read the apology you sent. It was my fault entirely for not responding, but consider also that I was moving, and then in daily training for a new and demanding full time managerial job, AND trying to use a broken computer that crashes a million times a day and stays down for hours at a time.
My first response to you over DA -WAS- rude. But I did more research on you and discovered that I had met you at AC and you werent just a random person throwing a fit. And i talked to one of your friends on DA. and so i WROTE you an apology for my rudeness....
I am thankful for the apology for the first note, again.
Anyhow, I figured you wrote me off completely and you probably did until you saw the furtail that I commissioned from Lucky a month or so after our run-in, and it sparked your interest again.
again it was mostly the reasons that I listed above keeping me from sending any messages, combined with my personal issue that every time I tried to think of what to do with this situation I started to feel sick to my stomach and get ridiculously upset for no justifiable reason other than irrational panic. When I saw the tail while browsing I was confused and upset enough that I I made a point to use a friend's computer to sit down and organize everything that I had started to write to you and send it.
Firstly I think we should discuss the differences as well as the similarities.
Kiki has thin gradiated zebra stripes on her tail, whereas robocoon as a couple large black bands
Kiki has gradiated zebra stripes down her legs, whereas Robocoon does not
Robocoon has some more thick stripes on her rear/back, Kiki doesn't
Robocoon has black patched eyes. Kiki doesnt
Robocoon's white covers the muzzle completely, while Kiki's goes around the lips and her pink color goes over the top of the muzzle
Robocoon's black ears start at the base, whereas Kiki's black starts halfway up the ear, "tipping" them
Robo's ears are all black, while Kiki has white tips at the top
The inside of Robo's ears seem to be solidly gray (or solidly white, depending on which of your drawings im looking at- it varies), while Kiki's are white, with pink running up the middle
Kiki has two thin zebra stripes on the upper chest, while Robo has a solid band around the throat, touching the base of the head
Robo's black goes to the elbow of the arms, Kiki's goes halfway up the leg
Kiki has white tipped paws, Robo doesnt
Kiki is a fox, Robo is....not
the robocoon species is common raccoon (50%) + cape fox (20%) + fennec (20%) + rough collie (10%), roughly divided up as follows
raccoon: facial structure, markings, long bushy fluffy tail
cape: lean build, long legs, deep chest
fennec: ears, small size, delicate bone structure
collie: cheek-ruffs, chest-ruff, elbow-ruffs, fur texture characteristics in general
so 40% fox, which is a significant portion. this has been established for the past 4 or 5 years or so, I know the name "roboCOON" is misleading as it neglects the other animals
Kiki has green irises with white corneas, Robo has solid yellow eyes
Kiki is supposed to be a hot pink, more on the red side of the spectrum than the blue side. You said Robo is supposed to be a Purple color (I have hex codes picked out for kiki and after sampling a color from a digital piece of Robo and comparing it to Kiki's pink hex, it is anything but "exact"...)
like I said, the color varies because I am not a digital artist. The color that I aim for is the color of our tails. A neon type of fuchsia, directly between purple and pink, is canonically the color of Techno's fur.
In my opinion, I don't think Kiki looks pink at all, nor does the color match the hoodies and stuff that inspired her... I think if you're going for pink you should try a different, definitely redder, maybe paler (but obviously still hot pink) color like #FF6F91 or something like that. The first character that comes to mind when I think of someone who is iconically "pink" is :iconmcarson:, personally, so maybe something close to that color too. This is just from the standpoint of a fellow artist and art school grad, not any desire to make you change your character.
and lets not forget one of the most important differences, Kiki is a four-legged animal, while Robo is anthro.
you have anthro art of kiki in your favorites. Also, techno/robocoon does have a feral body, but I personally don't draw it much because I'm not very good at cartoony animal bodies and I don't want to draw it realistic because it doesn't fit the character's personality. You are right that the primary shape is anthro though.
Do you think any of the suggestions that you gave me to alter her (i.e. putting white spots on the back of her ears) would make that much of a difference amongst all these differences?
Honestly I do, because the more differences there are, the more separate the characters will be on first glance. Honestly, you know this fandom... I have seen dogs mistaken for cats, bears mistaken for foxes, etc etc... Nobody does anything other than glance anymore.
If I could pick one thing that I would want you to change, beyond trying to keep the color more pink than an electric magenta, it would honestly be to remove the neck stripes. If you are adamant about keeping neck stripes, then my request would be to have more than two. Stripes in groups of two are sort of a schtick with me, and when I see those neck stripes I immediately think of the ones on Techno's back.
I am also taking measures to separate the characters more... not just asking you to change yours. This is, if only, because while I may be scaling back or dropping the use of Techno as a personal character due to this for the time being, I still need her for a comic project because she plays a pivotal role in the story. (Don't worry, it isn't anything like your comics, and will probably never get off the ground-- in fact, the story could be easily told with humans, but I prefer drawing animal characters because they give a better caricature of a personality.)
Anyway, one of the changes I have decided on is for Techno's cable/tentacle tips to be permanently external, whereas before, they fully retracted and disappeared into her back. I am also toying with some other ideas involving making the character's robotic nature more obvious, and/or possibly some color design/marking tweaks, but I haven't settled on anything yet. If you have any suggestions in the markings department, feel free to say.
The main reason anyone is going to be reminded of Kiki upon seeing Robocoon (or vise versa) is because of the color scheme of Hot pink, black, and white. The fact that they both have stripes just adds to the familiarity, though neither of us as artists and designers can deny that the striping patterns are completely different on the two.
How I designed kiki was simple. I looked at a photo of a red fox, drew and colored it, then changed the orange to hot pink, and then added zebra stripes.
The reason why her legs and ears are black is because red foxes' are, and the reason her tail is tipped white is the same. I know you were here first and I respect that, but it doesnt make sense for me to make my tail-tip black, as my species is clearly a fox, or add spots on her ears. Coons actually have black-tipped tails, so, it would make more sense for Robo to have that if anything. :)
Actually, tons of foxes have black tipped tails. I've seen many red foxes with no white at all on their tails, too. The white tip is just a design stereotype.
http://peterpalms.com/tails/graphics/redfoxtail12-17inches.jpg
http://i7.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/98/1b/a5_1_b.JPG
My character in particular actually has a white tipped tail because Pyro Rakufox drew one of my initial reference images with identical markings to her character's tail, but in different colors. I'm hesitant to remove my white tailtip because it was a bonding thing that she and I had together (and also because I have two fursuit tails with this design, and I'm fond of how it looks)
I don't want to have bad-blood here or make an enemy. I'm just trying to explain that our characters have a lot more differences than similarities and that you could possibly take that into account before you get too upset with me.
I never viewed you as an enemy, I want you to know that. Except for being offended at your initial response, I had/have no harsh feelings towards you at all, because frankly from your reputation I was expecting you to give me a big FUCK YOU over the whole issue, heheh. Although I would have to argue and say that there really are just as many similarities as there are differences. But I'm not upset with you personally, because I know that most of this has been coincidence, and despite what other people say, I really do NOT believe that you copied anything at all. It was just unlucky coincidence at worst.
Also, the most that has become of Kiki is a tail that I wear at cons... she really isn't that big of a deal. Im commissioning a partial suit of my comic character Swiftkill from Lucky this week anyway so....I dont know, if it makes you feel any better, I won't really be wearing Kiki that much anymore...?
honestly it does, because I have a big debut for a Techno fursuit very soon myself. Plus, the character means a LOT to me on a personal level and a cartooning level. It is actually very analogous to Swiftkill as a character, in that they both play an important role in a story that you put your soul into, and then took them on as a personal avatar and invested your time and emotions into that too. I don't have very high self esteem regarding anything I do, but when I can identify as Techno, if only online or from a fandom standpoint, I feel more confident about myself because I feel like I know who I am. Part of why I have been getting upset over this is because I feel like that in losing the character's uniqueness, I lost a big chunk of time and love that I invested into developing her over the years.
I am open to different suggestions, and I want both of us to come out happy or at least content here. Im really not interested in making enemies in the fur community, but at the same time I don't take well to having my creativity manipulated by others' desires if you know what I mean. If there is some way we could compromise, like me drawing Kiki pinker from now on, and you Robo purple-er, let me know.
Also for the record, Lucky picked the fabric/materials for my tail so... if the Pink fabric is the same material, that is also coincidence.
Well, I hope you respond this time instead of leavin me hangin.
Regards,
Kay
Not too much else to say to finish this response off, other than I'm sorry that you felt like I was ignoring you, and I'm sorry for the brash "forget it" response earlier. This has been a really exhausting process for me, especially alongside everything that's going on with me IRL. My life is really turbulent and screwed up right now and the only real point of stability I have are my characters and hobbies, so naturally when those started to waver as well the shit really hit the fan for me emotionally. I'm scraping to make ends meet in every way you could think of, while still trying to leave time and money so I can have little happy escapes here and there, and losing those would make me go crazy. I'm not looking for pity or backpats by telling you this, but I want you to understand that I'm really serious when I say that I've been overwhelmed, and not ignoring you or joking around with this whole situation. I know I am taking this all way too seriously, but I get insanely attached to things and that makes me extremely defensive.
Thanks for taking the time to read all of this. I'm really sorry for the TL;DR but I have issues with getting my thoughts out of my head and into sentances.
Techno "the robocoon"